Posts by raymond frantz

17

A Greek JW serves 15? yrs in prison for his neutrality position.

by smiddy in

i`m thinking back to the 1960`s/70s of a watchtower article who described a greek brother who was imprisoned for refusing military conscription service and was sentenced to 5 yrs imprionment by the govt.at the end of his confinement he was again ordered to serve in the military,which he declined and was sentenced to another 5 yrs in prison ,i think this occured one more time.

( at that time their was no way you did alternative service ) of course he was hailed as a faithful brother who wouldn`t compromise his beleifs.of course their were probably many more people who went through an experience like this.is their anybody on the board who can verify,or enlighten us to this experience?

i would like to know what happened to the poor buggers who sacrificed their lives in this way.. smiddy.

raymond frantz

1. I don't think there is any reference online or a website at the moment about the detailed history of consciencious objectors in Greece during and after the Greek Civil War .Also as far as I remember I've seen only two Greek books written on this subject back in the 90's but I don't think they are currently for sale on Amazon .Jehovah's Witnesses are a sour part of Greek history that not many Greeks would like to dwell on it. Jehovah's Witnesses were executed and tortured in prisons from 1945 up to late 1960's

2.Alternative military service was available from mid 80's ,civil service from early 90's but became a law in 1997 .Alternative military service ws considered serving in prison in jobs like restaurant,rubbish collection ,cleaning the prison .If a Witness accepted any of these jobs they counted one day for 2 and instead of serving a 4 year imprisonment your sentenced was reduced down 2 years .The local Bethel initially accepted this arrangement ,then changed their stance because the Governing Body saw it as a compromise since these jobs were under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Defence .These idiots expected the brothers in prison to fall in line immidiately and effectively double their prison sentence overnight .That didn't go to plan and many refused to fall in line resulting to scores being desifellowshiped.

17

A Greek JW serves 15? yrs in prison for his neutrality position.

by smiddy in

i`m thinking back to the 1960`s/70s of a watchtower article who described a greek brother who was imprisoned for refusing military conscription service and was sentenced to 5 yrs imprionment by the govt.at the end of his confinement he was again ordered to serve in the military,which he declined and was sentenced to another 5 yrs in prison ,i think this occured one more time.

( at that time their was no way you did alternative service ) of course he was hailed as a faithful brother who wouldn`t compromise his beleifs.of course their were probably many more people who went through an experience like this.is their anybody on the board who can verify,or enlighten us to this experience?

i would like to know what happened to the poor buggers who sacrificed their lives in this way.. smiddy.

raymond frantz

http://antirrisies.gr/node/219

17

A Greek JW serves 15? yrs in prison for his neutrality position.

by smiddy in

i`m thinking back to the 1960`s/70s of a watchtower article who described a greek brother who was imprisoned for refusing military conscription service and was sentenced to 5 yrs imprionment by the govt.at the end of his confinement he was again ordered to serve in the military,which he declined and was sentenced to another 5 yrs in prison ,i think this occured one more time.

( at that time their was no way you did alternative service ) of course he was hailed as a faithful brother who wouldn`t compromise his beleifs.of course their were probably many more people who went through an experience like this.is their anybody on the board who can verify,or enlighten us to this experience?

i would like to know what happened to the poor buggers who sacrificed their lives in this way.. smiddy.

raymond frantz

For about 25 years between the end of the WWII and late 1950's JWs who refused miitary service where rutinely executed or send to prison in Makronisos an island of the coast of Athens to serve long sentences and constant torturing along with members of the Communist Party .After the 1960's up to mid 80's brothers were send to prison for 4-8 years and then re-arested to put to prison again .Many served up to 16years .Greece didn't offer any alternative civic service up to the late 80's .When that happened many brothers accepted to work in prison under the supervision of the Ministry of Defence .Initially Bethel gave "the green light" for accepting these jobs ,then changed their mind and gave them an ultimatum ,resign or be disfellowshiped .From a total of 300 average JW prisoners one quarter was disfellowhiped .Can you imagine be shunned in prison ? Many never were reinstated and following their release left the truth .That carried on up to 1994 when the miitary prisons came under the jurisdictation of the Ministry of Affairs .The WT Society never apologised for any of this .Now , can you reminded how many presidents of the WT Society had their passports signed the OATH OF ALLIGIANCE TO THE STATE ?

http://masonemerson.freeyellow.com/christianwitnessescom/id312.html

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. (Matthew 23:1-4)

27

To Active JWs Your January 2, 2014 Daily Text Contains an Error

by PelicanBeach in

to active jws your january 2, 2014 daily text contains an error.

thursday, january 2. .

who the father is, no one knows but the son, and he to whom the son is willing to reveal him.luke 10:22.. .

raymond frantz

We live in unique times with tools never before available to minformed religious people (=INTERNET) the GB's authority is on it's way out

3

Theocratic Ministry Review :Grace vs Obedience to the Cult

by raymond frantz in

question 3 of the oral review for this week is very interesting.. "how do we enter into god's rest?

" (heb 4:9-11) the reference is from w11, 7/15 p.28, pars 16,17 .which says :".

"we can enter into jehovahs restor join him in his restby obediently working in harmony with his advancing purpose as it is revealed to us through his organization.. 17 on the other hand, if we minimized the bible-based counsel that we receive through the faithful and discreet slave class, choosing to follow an independent course, we would be placing ourselves at odds with gods unfolding purpose.

raymond frantz

Question 3 of the Oral Review for this week is very interesting.

"How do we enter into God's rest?" (Heb 4:9-11) The reference is from w11, 7/15 p.28, pars 16,17 .Which says :"

"We can enter into Jehovah’s rest—or join him in his rest—by obediently working in harmony with his advancing purpose as it is revealed to us through his organization.

17 On the other hand, if we minimized the Bible-based counsel that we receive through the faithful and discreet slave class, choosing to follow an independent course, we would be placing ourselves at odds with God’s unfolding purpose. This could endanger our peaceful relationship with Jehovah. In the next article, we will consider a few common situations that can affect God’s people and discuss how the decisions we make, whether to obey or to take an independent course, can determine if we have truly entered into God’s rest."

SO OBEDIENCE TO THE ORG WILL ENTER YOU TO GOD'S REST.

Now ,the correct answer from an apologetic website is this :

"
Hebrews 4:10–13 explains the nature of this faith. The kind of faith that enables us to enter into God’s rest is a faith that first demands that we rest from relying on our own works. Then the writer seemingly contradicts himself by telling us to make every effort: “For anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience” ( Hebrews 4:10–11 ). What this apparent paradox means is that such biblical faith involves our submissiveness to God, and our efforts in that area.

Though we desist in our self-efforts to earn salvation and the promised eternal rest, we also “make every effort to enter that rest” by choosing to depend solely on God, to trust Him implicitly, to yield totally to the promises of God through the free grace of His salvation. Why? So “that no one will fall by following their [the Israelites’] example of disobedience” ( Hebrews 4:11 ). We either trust ourselves to save ourselves, or we trust God to do that for us through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. By failing to trust God fully in His promises, we become disobedient and fail to enter the rest that is eternal life, just as the children of Israel became disobedient when they failed to enter thePromised Land.

So how do we stop trusting ourselves? How do we place our full trust in God and His promises? We enter into God’s rest by first understanding our total inability to enter God’s rest on our own. Next, we enter God’s rest by our total faith in the sacrifice of Christ and complete obedience to God and His will. “And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief” ( Hebrews 3:18–19 ). Unlike the Israelites whose unbelief prevented them from entering the Promised Land, we are to enter God’s rest by faith in Him, faith which is a gift from Him by grace ( Ephesians 2:8–9 ).

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/enter-Gods-rest.html#ixzz2pFsapFAx

What do you think?

5

Why Search for Truth ?

by raymond frantz in

i'm writing an article on my website about the truth ,and why it is important for a jw to search for the truth about his church .i stumbled upon a great wt 95 aricle (w95,7/1 why search for truth) and wonder if you can help make the connection between this article and the need to know the ttatt.. wt quote:".

granted, accepting the truths of gods word exacts a price.

first, just learning the truth can be a shattering experience.

raymond frantz

taken from the wt cd library

5

Why Search for Truth ?

by raymond frantz in

i'm writing an article on my website about the truth ,and why it is important for a jw to search for the truth about his church .i stumbled upon a great wt 95 aricle (w95,7/1 why search for truth) and wonder if you can help make the connection between this article and the need to know the ttatt.. wt quote:".

granted, accepting the truths of gods word exacts a price.

first, just learning the truth can be a shattering experience.

raymond frantz

I'm writing an article on my website about the Truth ,and why it is important for a JW to search for the Truth about his Church .I stumbled upon a great WT 95 aricle (W95,7/1 Why Search For Truth) and wonder if you can help make the connection between this article and the need to know the TTATT.

WT quote:"

Granted, accepting the truths of God’s Word exacts a price. First, just learning the truth can be a shattering experience. The Encyclopedia Americana observes: “The truth is often disagreeable, because it fails to support prejudice or myth.” Seeing our beliefs exposed as untrue can be disillusioning, especially if we were taught by trusted religious leaders. Some might liken the experience to finding out that trusted parents were, in fact, secret criminals. But is not finding out religious truth better than living under a delusion? Is it not better to know the facts than to be manipulated by lies?—Compare John 8:32; Romans 3:4.

Second, living by religious truth may cost us the acceptance of some who were formerly our friends. In a world where so many have “exchanged the truth of God for the lie,” those who hold firm to the truth of God’s Word seem peculiar and are sometimes shunned and misunderstood.—Romans 1:25; 1 Peter 4:4.

Does the Truth Ever Change?

THAT question was raised by V. R. Ruggiero in his book The Art of Thinking. His answer is no. He elaborates: “It may sometimes seem to, but on closer inspection it will be found not to.”

“Consider,” he says, “the case of the authorship of the first book of the Bible, the book of Genesis. For centuries Christians and Jews alike believed that the book had a single author. In time this view was challenged, and eventually replaced by the belief that as many as five authors contributed to Genesis. Then, in 1981, the results of a 5-year linguistic analysis of Genesis were published, stating that there is an 82 percent probability of single authorship, as originally thought.

“Has the truth about the authorship of Genesis changed? No. Only our belief has changed. . . . The truth will not be changed by our knowledge or by our ignorance.”(W95,7/1 Why Search For Truth)

48

Proof of a Kingdom Hall being sold to a church!

by Sittingstraight1212 in

it cracks me up if you bring this subject up to a witness , they always try to convince themselves that i'm reading into this!!!.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqwknq31ie&feature=youtube_gdata_player.

raymond frantz

In the early 90's the WTBT$ decided that the Greek Bethel was too small to house the Bethel family and told them that they wanted to build a new bigger Bethel at the outskirts of Athens that will look after the needs of all South Eastern Europe.What a priviledge! The Greek brotherhood fell for it .Thousands of volunteers worked non stop for over 4 years to build this monster site .You have to understand that Greeks work Monday to Friday and all their weekends at the expence of family life and personal health they had to work from early in the morning till late at night to finish this project UNPAID !!!

4 years down the line the Bethel is finshed but things have also changed in Athens dramatically ,the goverment's new plans were to relocate all businesses to the outskirts of Athens ,as a result the property value skyrocketed !

What do you know? Only few years after the Bethel was finished they decided to sell it and return the family to it's original building. The site was sold for hundrends of millions of euros while it cost them next to nothing to buy the land (previously pasture grounds for local shepherds) and build it with FREE LABOR.

Now you have to understand ,I see many brothers and sisters helping in building projects but this is done mostly ,at least here in Britain , at the expence of the taxpayer.Now I don't say this is the case for all ,but at least the majority will be living off benefits in paid from the goverment accomodation doing window cleaning without declaring any tax.Greece hasn't got such system .If you don't work you end up on the street ,no benefits no free housing .These people gave from what they didn't have to build the new Bethel .

What a scam !!!

(P.S: I have never volunteered for these crooks)

56

Never Become Enraged with Jehovah (tomorrow's WT Study)....pure vomit

by raymond frantz in

never become enraged against jehovah.

(watchtower study 7-13 october).

paragraph 4.

raymond frantz

@EndofMisteries ,I'm not reproved or d/fed ,they just don't like my answers...

56

Never Become Enraged with Jehovah (tomorrow's WT Study)....pure vomit

by raymond frantz in

never become enraged against jehovah.

(watchtower study 7-13 october).

paragraph 4.

raymond frantz

I'm blacklisted for some time now but I always say a prayer before I put my hand up and then I hope for the best .I don't usually answer the silly questions ,I go for the ones that carry the mind control propaganda and try to destroy them .If you destroy the right question the whole article comes apart .